Fake ATM Scams

Broadcast on NBC

MATT LAUER, co-host:

Meanwhile, out on the plaza, I'm Matt Lauer along with
Meredith Vieira and Al Roker. And coming up in this
half-hour, we're going to talk about ATMs.

How often do you use one each week?

MEREDITH VIEIRA, co-host:

Oh, at least two times, probably, a week.

LAUER: Two.

AL ROKER reporting:

Four or five.

LAUER: Four or five times a week?

ROKER: Yeah.

LAUER: You know, normally you think, 'OK, I can trust it.
It's an ATM, it's in an area where I'm familiar--that I'm
familiar with.' The question is, do you know that scammers
are out there putting ATMs, fake ATMs, out there? Their
only hope is to grab your personal information. We're
going to tell you how you can protect yourself.

VIEIRA: Gosh, you're not safe anywhere, are you?

ROKER: I shouldn't--so I shouldn't use that one in your
office?

LAUER: Bank of Vieira? No.

VIEIRA: No, we don't.

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(Unrelated Segments)

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LAUER: Need some cash? Well, ATMs are just about
everywhere these days. But if you're not careful, you
could end up paying a very big price. It's a luxury many
of us take for granted, access to our money anytime, almost
anywhere. ATMs. They used to be found only in bank
lobbies, now they're everywhere, from fast-food chains to
convenience stores. But just when you think an ATM is a
safe place to get your money, you could be taken for a
ride.

Mr. JIM STICKLEY (TraceSecurity): The trouble is, how do
you know what's a real ATM and what's just some idiot that
just put one out on a corner somewhere that can scam you?

LAUER: Cybersecurity expert Jim Stickley decided to see
how easy it would be to put a fake ATM on a busy street,
stealing precious card numbers and PINs. He bought kiosks
online, installed a fake card reader, a touch screen and
voila.

Mr. STICKLEY: There's nothing about them that would
question that they're not an ATM machine.

LAUER: A fake ATM with some real consequences.

Mr. STICKLEY: They're going to put their PIN in. Instead
of giving them money, it's going to give them a message
telling them there was an error processing their card.

LAUER: Next stop, Sixth Street, Austin, Texas, a city
known for its nightlife, with lots of foot traffic and even
more ATMs. With the permission of popular nightclub Pure,
Jim set up two ATMs outside in broad daylight, no questions
asked.

Mr. STICKLEY: I mean, as you can see, we got the ATMs set
up. They look really good on the street. The "no fee"
thing's the big draw. I mean, everybody that's walked by
has made comments.

LAUER: With four hidden cameras in place, Quickstop ATM
was officially open for business.

Unidentified Man #1 (Uses ATM): It looks like any regular
ATM on the street.

Mr. STICKLEY: We just got another one right now. She's
now entering in her PIN, and as soon as she's done entering
that PIN, we'll have recorded her card information and her
PIN information.

LAUER: Equipped with their information, Jim has the keys
to their account.

Mr. STICKLEY: Within half an hour of them using those
cards, we could now go out, make our own card--which is
very easy to do--and then do a withdrawal up to whatever
they have in their account.

Now she's entering in her PIN number in, and at this point
she's already been scammed.

LAUER: In reality, Jim only recorded the last four digits
of their card number, along with the total number of digits
in their password.

Mr. STICKLEY: We have another guy right now who's
attempting to use the ATM machine, and he's just been
denied.

Unidentified Man #2 (Uses ATM): I never would have
thought. Total shocker.

LAUER: In all, the machines were used 42 times by 27
different people, this in the course of just five hours.

Mr. STICKLEY: Austin turned out to be a great place. You
have a lot of people, they're out having a good time, the
last thing on their mind is identity theft.

LAUER: Jim Stickley is with TraceSecurity.

Jim, nice to see you.

Mr. STICKLEY: Good morning.

LAUER: With all the money you scammed, you should have
bought a coat. It's freezing out here.

Mr. STICKLEY: It is very cold.

LAUER: Is this something we really need to be worried
about? I mean, we went out of our way--and you did--to
create this scenario. But in a normal day, are we going to
run into these things?

Mr. STICKLEY: Absolutely. These are happening all over
the United States right now.

LAUER: And are they tend--do they tend to put these things
in busy places, like we did in Austin, Texas?

Mr. STICKLEY: It makes sense to. They'll put it
where--outside of a popular nightclub, a restaurant,
somewhere where they're going to get a lot of foot traffic.

LAUER: So equipped with the information you got out of
this fake reader right here, what exactly could you do to
the 27 people who used your ATM?

Mr. STICKLEY: Well, we could have made a card and had that
card have their exact information on it, gone to a real ATM
machine and withdrawn cash out of their account.

LAUER: And then there's probably a maximum amount that a
thief could steal every day, and over time the banks might
reimburse the customer?

Mr. STICKLEY: You would hope, yeah. But the trouble is
that--how long will it take for them to process that and
get that money back into your account?

LAUER: All right, so you have some tips, and these are
really important. First one is avoid using freestanding
ATMs. Just describe exactly what you mean.

Mr. STICKLEY: This, right here, just standing on a
sidewalk. It's dangerous. You have no idea when this got
put there and when they're going to take it away. You want
it mounted to the side of a building, you want it inside a
reputable establishment, something like that.

LAUER: So does it--I mean, for example, you say inside an
establishment. I've been to a lot of little mom-and-pop
stores, kind of convenience-type stores that aren't parts
of national chains. Should I trust those machines?

Mr. STICKLEY: For the most part, you should. Yeah.
They're decent people, they're out to make a living and
they've decided to put it in there. It should be safe.

LAUER: And for people who get suspicious about a machine,
there's probably things they can do, they can make phone
calls. But the whole reason we use these is for speed and
convenience, so you don't want to stop and have to disrupt
your day.

Mr. STICKLEY: Absolutely. Nobody's going to stop.

LAUER: Your next tip is if it doesn't dispense cash, be
suspicious. Why?

Mr. STICKLEY: Absolutely. Most of the time if you walk up
to a machine and it's out of money, it already says "out of
service" when you first try to use it, before you put your
card in or anything. So if it waits till after you put
your card in and then you've type your PIN, and then it
says, 'Oh, yeah, never mind, it doesn't work,' that's a
troubling sign.

LAUER: Let's just go over that one more time because I
think that's the most important thing in the segment. A
reputable machine will tell you it can't dispense cash
before you put in any of your personal information.

Mr. STICKLEY: Absolutely.

LAUER: And so if you get a sign after you've typed in your
PIN that says, 'We cannot give you cash,' what do you do?
Walk away? Do you stand and wait for a police--I mean, how
do you then remedy the situation?

Mr. STICKLEY: I would contact my bank and find out--make
sure that the process even attempted to happen. If they
have no record of it even happening, be very concerned.
Either put a watch on that or cancel that card and get a
new one.

LAUER: And your third tip is if it's too good to be true,
it probably is. No fees.

Mr. STICKLEY: Yeah. Most of these independent ATMs are
out there to make money. If they're having a no fee on
them, that's another layer. I mean, basically, as we said,
you know, you've got it first of all freestanding, then
you've got this thing that's giving you this error
message...

LAUER: Right.

Mr. STICKLEY: ...then no fees, it's frightening.

LAUER: All right. Jim Stickley, go get warm. You're
freezing, I can tell.

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